The geek in question: Dona Sarkar

The job title: Test Lead in Windows Experience (WEX)

With Windows 7 on the horizon, it must be super crazy, exciting time for your team right now. It is so exciting. In all my years in industry I've never felt this kind of excitement or pride in my work before. So, it's wonderful, yeah.

So, you’re a Test Lead, but I also understand you’re an author of Young Adult fiction? How’d that happen? I went to school at the University of Michigan, and I studied computer science. Computer science was challenging, it was fun, it was a huge learning experience, but all my writing classes, literature, creative writing, that sort of thing all came very naturally to me. So, I split my time and got a minor in English When I moved out to the West Coast to start working as a dev, I started taking creative arts classes at Bellevue Community College, including fiction writing. In that class, I started writing my first novel. It was awful...

More...

Charlie found me on Twitter, where he sent me a message saying "Speaking of diversity at MS- How many native Cherokee speakers do you know of? At least 1-me :-)" A native Cherokee-speaking dev? Must! Know! More! So here's the interview...

The geek in question: Charlie Smith

The job title: Lead software development engineer, Last Mile Innovation (a subgroup of Consumer and Online)

So what is that last mile?
We're almost like a startup group within Microsoft. The LMI group sees the last mile as that final gap between the incredible platforms we build, and the Microsoft OEMs, and product teams across the world that need to customize and deploy applications on them. We're using Messenger services, search services, social networking services as well as a host of other applications and tools across all divisions of Microsoft to help teams present our products in a way that can hopefully make money.

I primarily build software development kits, assist in creating technical documentation, create prototype software and advise teams on how to use existing Microsoft services. In fact our work will likely be presented by at least 2 groups at MIX09 this year.

You mentioned being a start-up group. Do you feel like it's actually possible to have a startup environment in an enormous 90,000-person company?
Absolutely. With the web you have a lot more ability to be innovative. We're trying to forge new ground here. With a huge company you would think you would just become a cog, and I have never felt that way here, not even for a moment.

Did I hear that you grew up speaking Cherokee?
My dad is full blood Cherokee. My Native American family are all in Oklahoma, and although I haven't really spoken Cherokee much since I was a kid, when I listen to people speak, I can almost always tell if they're a native speaker whether it's Cherokee or not, because of the way they speak English.

Are there ways you apply your Cherokee background to your coding?
Absolutely, it's a cultural thing. It's all about family, and it's about getting along and getting together and accomplishing things. Teamwork has always been important in my life. Learning how to get along with people and how to achieve a common goal, and how to listen to other people, has been really important to me, and I think it's been really helpful for me in my role at LMI.

So you're not into that stereotype about devs where you're just heads down and doing your own thing.
There's a time for that and a place for that, but it doesn't really work all that well in modern programming. In the last five or six years, development has become highly, collaborative. For example, I use other people's APIs. I have to work with other developers a lot. The heads down stuff, I still do that once in a while, and I get kind of grumpy when I do that.

How long have you been at Microsoft?
I've been a permanent employee for two years, but I had my first contract here 12 years ago.

How do you feel like the company has changed since that first contract?
I knew a lot of people then that were having problems because of the work-life balance. It was really tough then. Contractors weren't very well regarded in most groups. It was a huge difference coming back a few years ago to work at first MSN and now at LMI -- I just feel now that you are valued as a person, as a contributor, whether you are a contractor or full-time employee, which is really great. And the work-life balance has been really, really good. The people here completely respect and support what you do for your family. And that seems to be a solid priority in all the groups I've worked with. Not that sometimes you don't work a little bit later, but it's not a common occurrence.

What do you do with your work/life balance? I paint. The creative side of myself that I express when painting has been a huge help in my career as a developer. In fact, most devs that I know tend to be very creative in nature. I’ve known musicians, writers, painters, poets and actors who also happen to be great devs. Many of them work at Microsoft!

Links, please? • Charlie's blog: charlesesmith.spaces.live.com • Charlie's Twitter: twitter.com/ces614 • Charlie's Paintings: twitpic.com/photos/ces614

Jeff Lin, guitarist for Seattle band Harvey Danger, talks about Virtual Earth 3D, work/life balance, and finding your destiny.

Geek in question: Jeff Lin

Job title: Program Manager, Virtual Earth 3D

What are you working on right now?
Virtual Earth 3D is all about realistic representation of the world. We’ve got a couple hundred cities with photo-realistic imagery and 3D geometry. You can add photos, make movies, do tours. It's actually super cool. I think it's one of the coolest things that Microsoft is doing.

Do you have to say that because you work on it?
Naw. I feel pretty lucky that I got this position. I just started in this group five months ago. I'd been over at MSN since 2005, and when I applied for this job, I was like, there's no way. I think I just lucked out.

Is Virtual Earth 3D a good stalking tool?
Ha — not yet. We’re still working on those features.

So, before Microsoft you had a rockstar era, what with your band Harvey Danger and the whole "Flagpole Sitta" thing. How did that transition work?
When you're a young musician you're like, "If this doesn't work out, I can always go back to school." And so when the band disintegrated in 2002, I went back to school to get my second bachelor's degree, in Computer Science.

After college, I came to Microsoft because the Program Manager tradition is very strong here — it’s where the role actually started. It's a unique role that suits me, because you're forced to deal with larger issues. How do you apply the technology? What problems are you trying to solve? Are you solving the right problems? What's the purpose of the technology? You're making something out of nothing, and your only boundary is your imagination.

Do you use some of those old Harvey Danger skills in your current gig?
Being a contributor in a creative collaborative process is a skill you can definitely hone being in a band. Collaborative processes are always hard. You're not ever going to get away from that bullshit, you know? Everyone can always use practice. Being able to overcome the reflexive ego response is important — if someone's attacking an idea, they're not attacking me

.…I'm still working on that one.
Being able to distinguish those things is really hard. But there's a certain point where it's not even about the idea any more -- it's just about the dynamic between people. It's the key to any really good creative collaboration. You have to be able to see beyond "mine" and "yours" and see "ours." You have to get over "I was wrong, you were right" and just see that, you know: that option is just better. It’s actually one of the things that’s always impressed me about Microsoft: the ability to admit that we’re wrong. There's constant self-criticism and self-assessment about how to do better here. People really take it to heart.

Jeff-relevant links:
Virtual Earth 3d Harvey Danger website Harvey Danger on Myspace Harvey Danger's latest album, which can be downloaded for FREE (that's a whole other story)

How do you feel about work/life balance?
I get it intellectually -- but personally, I don't get it. It's not work or life. It's ALL your life. Am I supposed to be working? Or am I supposed to be life-ing? What's the difference? I can't do it.

I try to look at it as, "What am I learning here?" as opposed to working for a paycheck. If you treat it that way, your mentality is different. It should never be a challenge to come to work. At any point, I can choose not to come. This company treats its employees very well, but it's not Microsoft's job to figure out your life for you and push you along that way. You don't want an adult daycare. You don't want a corporate mother. The responsibility lies with each individual to figure out their destiny.

The geek in question: Alex MacLeod

The job: Senior Test Manager, Exchange

Do you feel like the Exchange team gets no love? Like people see it as less sexy than, say, Xbox?
Totally. When people apply at Microsoft, they get this boilerplate form where they check their interest in different groups. And the only two check boxes I’ve ever seen marked are Games or Mobile Devices. And occasionally someone who thinks they’re a hardcore computer candidate will check OS, but no one ever chooses the Enterprise applications like Exchange. No one knows what it means and it doesn’t sound cool.

But see, I work on a product that for millions of people and millions of businesses across the globe, isn't a "nice to have" feature. It’s a complete "must have." There’s not a company in the world that doesn’t view their ability to communicate effectively with each other through email as total mission critical. And when it doesn’t work whole economies suffer.

Email is being used by United States Senate, and by global companies like AT&T or Marathon Oil, and by the educational system, the education board in London or South Africa. It matters. I work on something that actually totally matters. And not only does it matter — but it’s a great business.

What's surprised you about working at Microsoft?
I was surprised at how much energy there was in the hallways. In my first couple of years here, I often told people it was like going back to school — but not like your freshman year where everybody’s just trying to figure out who they are and what they’re doing. But like, when you’re in your senior year and you’re really hitting your advance studies. Where you’re totally locked onto something that you are interested in and you’re surrounded by people who have chosen that same thing and the combined energy is just incredible.

People are running full throttle at these problems and they’re bouncing off each other. And it just makes for a really stimulating place to be. I imagined the software industry to be a much less dynamic kind of place to work. I was surprised to find how energetic it is.

There's a lot of talk at Microsoft about work/life balance, but I heard that for you it's work/fiddle balance?
I used to play guitar and I then got into some old time music — kind of like blue grass, but more Appalachian, "guy with the banjo on his front porch" type stuff.

I have a wood working interest, so about a year and a half ago I built a violin from a kit. I play at least once a week with a group and then practice almost every day — which is no fun for anybody but me.

I have a very patient and loving family. Amateur fiddling is definitely something you inflict on people.

Which of your fiddling skills get applied to work?
Imagining and creating something that does not yet exist, whether it’s an instrument or music or a piece of software— that’s a creative process, striving to bring something new into the world.

And it’s not just about bringing that thing into the world, but also about the joy of putting it to real use. You get to take this thing and make it do something surprising and amazing, like produce music. This thing that you built with glue and wood and wire produces music. And that’s just remarkably gratifying.

And the software is a really similar process — you imagine something, you struggle through bringing it into the world, and then you take it and you apply it and you get this great, surprising result out of it. And that’s remarkably gratifying, too.

I noticed that you've been turned into a cartoon on exchangeyourcareer.com. What's that feel like?
I like cartoons — I watch cartoons. It’s one of the things I like to do with my kids. The day I got to come home and say, “Guess what — your dad is a cartoon!” was a total highlight. If only in my kids’ minds I felt that I had gotten some measure of the popularity that was so elusive back in high school…

Links, pweeze?
• exchangeyourcareer.com Where I’m a cartoon, and where you can learn more about the Exchange team. • exchangelabs.com The most exciting thing to happen to email, ever. • stringband.mossyroof.com Lots of the music I like to play, plus some links to the people who teach old-time music in Seattle….Greg and Jere Canote. Good times! • You can find me on Facebook, too!

The geek in question: Jillian Venters aka "That Goth Girl."

The job title: Technical Editor, Dev Div

What is it that you do here?

I edit help documentation for developers on the Dev Div team, and I've been an editor here at Microsoft as a contractor and then full time for about seven years now.

How is it working in Dev Div?

There are times when I walk around and just think, "Wow. These people are way, way smarter than me." There's a lot of uber-nerd cache about being in Dev Div, and it's been great being on the team.

How did you get here?

I fled the game industry. I used to work as an editor for Wizards of the Coast, while also freelance editing for friends who wrote role playing games. A friend of mine was working as an editor on Microsoft Reader, and she said "Give me your resume! Come here!" And so I fell into technical editing and then realized "Hey, wait! This is a pretty cool company and no one cares that I come to work wearing petticoats and a top hat! I'll stay here."

Ok, let's talk about the petticoats and top hat. You're more than goth. You're super goth!

Every job I've ever interviewed for at Microsoft, I've looked just like this. I mean, maybe I don't wear the top hat, but I don't disguise who I am. And it's gotten to the point where I would go to interviews and people would say, "You're that goth girl! I've seen you around!"

Every team I've been on, I'll get someone who wanders into my office and says, "So, my kid's getting into this wearing all black kinda thing, listening to weird music … can I bring them into to talk to you?" And I'm always like, "Sure! I'm happy to explain that you can still be a freak and a gainfully employed grown-up."

How much of a grown-up are you?

I'll be turning 40 this year.

So, here's the simple question: Why? Why do you dress like this?

Ever since I was little, I wanted weird fancy clothes. My parents used to tease me about how I said when I grew up I wanted to be the Wicked Witch of the West — or marry Dracula. So this is kind of a long-term thing for me. This is what I look like all the time — unless I'm home doing housework, and then I'm in bloomers and a concert t-shirt.

What responses do you get from your coworkers?

I don't do this for other people's attention. This is just who I am. But I also acknowledge that I'm going to get stopped and get questions.

It's always fun for me, when I switch onto a new team, to have the countdown for how long it takes before somebody stops me in the cafeteria and asks me if I'm in a play, or is it a holiday in my country? That's my favorite — I'm like, "No, actually. It's Wednesday."

Have you found Microsoft to be accepting of your eccentricities?

This company is so accepting of all lifestyles. It doesn't matter if you have to duck out early for a D&D game, or if you have to duck out early to pick your kids up at daycare — Microsoft is really accepting of the "We know you have a life outside work" thing. The company really understands that people have non-work passions -- and you're then expected to bring all of that enthusiasm and inspiration into your job.

So, what are your interests outside of work?

For almost ten years now, I've written an online advice and etiquette column for goths and alternative culture people called Gothic Charm School. I've gotten questions like, "So I have this coworker who likes to wear a lot of black and has vampire posters. Should I treat them any differently?" And I say, "No! Goths are not Satanists. They're not murderers."

What MSFT benefits have you enjoyed the most?

The company is so accepting of people's differences and lifestyle needs. I'm nocturnal. I'm not a morning person. So the fact that I don't have to be in the office until 10am is a Godsend.

And the training! I've done a lot of training on technical aspects of my job, and I really like the Clear Communication classes at Microsoft. Communication is very important to how I do my job, and you need to communicate clearly, you need to be able to get your point across, you need to be able to communicate with people from all different backgrounds and of all different fields. Being able to go take these sponsored training courses is great!

Do you use these communication techniques outside of work?

Yes. The classes have helped me at work, but they've also helped me become much more articulate in my everyday life. I'm not just an ambassador of goth culture — I'm also an ambassador of Microsoft. People will stop and ask me about my outfit, and ask me where I work. And I say, "I work at Microsoft!" And they say, "WHAT!?" And I explain, I'm a tech editor and they don't care that I come in like this as long as I get my work done, everything's great.

What do you think about the perception of both Goths and Microsoft being evil?

I have friends who are like "Oh my god, you're working for the evil empire!" And I'm like, "Yes, and you know what? They're really awesome!"

Every big company has its problems and bureaucracy and weirdness, and as long as you know that going in, then you can find a place that's good to work.

My advice to folks thinking about Microsoft would be this: Try not to buy into the hype of the Evil Empire. That it's the borg. That they're out to absorb and crush everyone. Cuz that's not the case. I have met incredibly cool people here.

Jillian Venters - A Goth inside the Deathstar Oh, so you want some links, hmm?

• All about why flextime work schedules rock
• Benefits of Working Flex Time: Where to find it, how to get it
• The VP of Dev Div blogs about nurturing innovations
• Gothic Charm School, Jillian's site