Relocation, Relocation, Relocation
Someone recently asked me to talk about my relocation experience. I think it’s a good idea since we haven’t really spent a lot of time writing about that topic. In fact, I think that we have spent a lot of time focused on resume and interview tips and haven’t spent enough time on what happens if the interviews actually go well and you accept the offer. I like what one of the comments said in Gretchen’s ask for feedback:
Instead of giving people clues on how to get the job, make them think about being the kind of person that is crucial to Microsoft's success.
I actually think that is a really insightful comment. Lou Adler, a recognized leader in recruiting, thinks that organizations spend more time looking at qualifications of a good candidate versus those of a good employee. I tend to agree with him to a certain extent.
But I digress…
The real purpose of the post is to talk a little about relocation and my experience specifically.
Ordinarily, for the “core technical roles” that we staff in Redmond, WA we provide a fairly generous relocation package. It typically includes travel to the new location, moving your household goods, transporting your car, temporary housing, rental car, relocation expenses, and storage of your goods for a certain period of time.
I want to stress that this is a gross generalization, but I still think it is fairly hefty given the cost of moving from various locations. Also, there are groups and positions outside of the core technical roles that may not have the same relocation budget. (Tip for any job seeker? Make sure to check upfront what the relocation packages cover!) Additionally, your recruiter can/will tweak your package depending on your specific circumstances; Are you a homeowner? A renter in the middle of a lease? Do you have a significant other? Kids? Pets? An extensive wine collection? :)
So yeah – the relocation package is great, but what about my experience? I have to say it was completely uneventful. The movers came to my apartment and packed all my things for me (nice!). They came and got my car and put it on a huge flatbed truck. I flew out to Redmond and by that time Mr. Zoë had already been here for 6 weeks, found an apartment and set it all up for us. What a man!
What was more difficult for me was actually making the decision to leave family, friends and familiarity to come out to a completely unknown place and job. What helped me make the decision? It was (and still is) the opportunity of a lifetime. Not just working at Microsoft, but also experiencing a place, culture, people and environment that I would never have experienced on the East Coast. I actually feel a bit like a pioneer since all of my family is in New York and Ohio. I miss them but the distance is made shorter by planes, calls, IM, email etc. I have loved my time out here and plan on staying for the next little while at least.
Honestly, the fact of the matter is that Gretchen and I can talk until the day is long about how wonderful we think it is out here, but at the end of that day the decision is yours. And it is an intensely personal decision for you to make by yourself or with your family. However, I think it is one you will want to consider before you embark on any job search. If this job requires relocation – are you willing to go?
Just a thought...
18 Comments
zoe said:
I think we all do! Funny that you should mention restaurants. I had the same feeling and then I went home last year for the holidays and we went back to some of my favorite places. Honestly, it just wasn't the same (more nostalgia then anything else) and I think I have found some new favorites out here.
It is a weird situation, (and this is not a comment on you), when do the things at home stop being your favorites and the places/things in your new home start becoming your favorites?
I think the one key to moving is also to change your mind set. I learned the hard way by comparing everyting out here to things at home. It's just not the same and it is easier to embrace the change then to complain about it. Then you can really start living!
Nick said:
How about relocation from another country?
It may be worth a separate post, but how do you guys handle applications from people outside of U.S.A.?
Is it easy for someone like me, who lives in Australia to apply for a position in Redmond, or do you expect that person to already be living in the US?
How do interviews work in this scenario? Is it all phone based?
KC Lemson said:
Microsoft paid to move *my stuff* to Redmond too, even though the new hire in question (now my husband) and I were not even married (I wasn't a candidate at the time). The truck drove to both of our apartments and picked up everything, shipped it out to WA and also paid for both of our plane tickets. I thought that was pretty cool at the time. And a darn good thing too, since I was dirt poor.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Does Microsoft include spousal occupational considerations when they relocate you? My wife is a Reistered Nurse. She would have to get her nursing license in Washington State, which - depending on the state's government system - could take a month or so.
Have they got connections to handle such contingencies or connections to expedite the process in a timely manner? Also, how do they help you with finding temporary rentals or housing?
Jonathan Poon said:
I was relocated from Singapore to Redmond just a few months ago as part of a reorg.
The most difficult thing was deciding to leave my parents behind in Singapore and go to a totally new country to start a new life.
The international movers did a great job, and the relocation specialist helped a lot in making sure that my wife and i are settled down quickly.
Nowadays, i think the hardest thing is having to start creating our social circle anew. Not having much friends here meant practically zero social life.
Some of the struggles that my wife and i had are on our blogs.
jmo said:
I start with MS in Dublin, Ireland in January, and am moving from Scotland.
MS are doing all of the things in the above posts, except the storage of my stuff when it gets here, but overall I am really happy so far
Fingers cross the ACTUAL move goes well :-)
zoe said:
Brian - Microsoft does take spouse or S.O. into consideration when working on relocation. I am not sure what specific connections the relocation specialist have, but often times we connect you with the right people to help out with those areas. We do provide homefinding assistance and we have a network of temporary housing to offer you depending on your location preference (Seattle, Eastside etc).
I am glad to hear a lot of you have had positive experiences so far.
Jonathan - I totally agree, I found it very hard to make friends when I first moved here. Funny enough, most of my good friends who are out here are also from Cleveland!
Andrew said:
What does typically happen for homeowners? The stress and expenses and involved in selling a house are a significant barrier to moving to a new company in a different city. I've heard of homeowner packages that range from nothing through reimbursement of realtor fees all the way to the company buying your old house from you. Where does Microsoft typically fall on that scale for core technical positions?
The other relocation barrier (for me at least) is fear of the unknown. The Seattle area has a reputation of being an expensive place to live. Maybe a future topic for your blog would be an honest discussion of the cost of living for renters and homeowners presented alongside the benefits Seattle has to offer?
Andrew.
Matt Wharton said:
Andrew,
I'm a homeowner myself in the process of relocation to Redmond. I'm not sure how many details it would be kosher for me to get into in public. I will say though that I'm finding the homeowner specific relo benefits to be very generous.
As for home prices, I've done a bit of casual investigation. Single family homes certainly seem somewhat more expensive then where I'm at in Colorado, particularly in the east side area (Redmond, Bellevue, etc). Townhomes/condos seem reasonable though (as compared to prices here); that's probably what I'll end up doing after renting for a few months. There are programs to help you with buying something new as well.
Hope this helps somewhat..
-Matt
zoe said:
Matt's right - I was purposely vague :) because your situation will typically dictate your relocation package. In general though, Microsoft does provide assistance to homeowners.
Essentially, we try as much as possible to eliminate the stress of moving so that you can feel more relaxed about starting a new job in a new place.
Sathyaish Chakravarthy said:
Zoe,
Great point about the tough decision to leave family and friends. I actually have had something along the same lines to say:
[QUOTE]
Aaron, I am very introverted and I keep asking myself, "You're gonna stay away from your parents. They're aging. They won't be here forever. Do you really want it?"
I am not in just for the money. The reason I fell in love with Microsoft was because of Joel. I licked all of his blog and in those beautiful lines were coveted the reasons. I liked being able to tell my folks and friends, "You know! I work for the best company in the world." or "That wizard you see that generates the code for you in VB.NET, I created it." or "That part of CLR was designed by me." And I loved the thought of being a millionaire. To top all that, a closed door office, colleagues of your own template who don't talk that much, managers who understand you, it sounded like utopian paradise. I still believe Redmond has some fine people you'd just fall in love with.
There are so many reasons I love Microsoft, I can't even remember. And I could go on and on.
[/QUOTE]
<a target="_new" href="http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?off.9.31591.#discussTopic31715">http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?off.9.31591.#discussTopic31715</a>
BTW, Zoe and Gretchen, I met Alan Griver today at the VB.NET World Tour (UserGroup) seminar, the Delhi meet. He was telling me that you and Gretchen were the kind of super stars in limelight at the recent MVP summit. :-)
<a target="_new" href="http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=29503">http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=29503</a>
zoe said:
Thanks Sathyaish! Alan is a great person to know and network with...
Morgan said:
The Seattle's relocation package is only a pocket liner for real estate agents.
mamamusings said:
We’re getting closer and closer to moving time—my official start date at Microsoft Research will be 7/5/05, which means I’ll be moving in about 2-1/2 months. Ack! We’ll be renting out our house while we’re gone. Rather than moving our household goods cross-country and then back again (a non-trivial expense), however, we’re going to try to simplify the process as much as possible. We’ll be storing our furniture and many of our possessions—some of it in the basement, and the rest in climate-controlled storage at Store-to-Door—they drop off a bunch of storage “vaults” in your driveway, you pack them up,...
gt said:
I am still not clear on the relocation benefits for homeowners. Can anyone of you shed some light on it ?
Thanks a lot
-GT
Cris said:
My husband works at Microsoft out of Dallas but live in Austin. We are considering moving to one of the cities that he goes to the most.
First question: Would Microsoft pay for a move if he needs to move to where they need him?
Second Q: Would Microsoft pay for any upside on our home since we just bought it almost 2 years ago? Not sure what the value of our house would be at the time of the move.
Thanks!
Cris
Evil Pork Chop MD said:
My past relos have also been uneventful, though I've heard horror stories. I had a manager who had the moving truck catch fire enroute and had all of his possesions burned to ash. The company stepped up and gave him an additional stipend to get settled.
Otherwise, I think you have to decide upfront before you start searching whether you will move. I've never regretted moving, I just miss certain people and restaurants. :-)
zoe said:
Great questions Nick! Have you checked out my post on international recruiting: <a target="_new" href="http://blogs.msdn.com/jobsblog/archive/2004/03/23/94583.aspx">http://blogs.msdn.com/jobsblog/archive/2004/03/23/94583.aspx</a>
Let me know if this answers some of your questions.
Briefly - yes we do relocate people from outside the US. We don't expect people to be living in the US, but we are struggling (like every company) with the visa issue.