Always looking for great software engineers for the US
Yesterday Scoble blogged about the need for developers in the US. His blog gets far more readership then ours, so I won't begrudge him the fact that we have posted many times here on the Microsoft Jobs Blog about our need to hire talented developers. :) So just to reiterate - yes we are still hiring. The simple fact is that we are always on the search for great talent for the technical positions we have open at Microsoft. The reality is that it is tough to find good talent when trying to deal with issues such as relocation, job content and just simply finding the "right match".
although, we've said it before, I'll say it again. We currently have about 4,300 open positions at Microsoft across all groups and disciplines. Roughly 1,500 of those are what we would consider industry product development positions (SDE, SDET, STE, PM). Of these 1,500 openings, 95% of them are at corporate headquarters in Redmond, WA. We offer an awesome relocation package and I would be happy to share with you my own relocation story. I made the trip all the way from Cleveland - a long way away from home these days!
Gretchen and I are committed to getting through as many of the new folks applying as possible as well as looking into how to improve the application process. No system is perfect and we are also hampered by factors that are out of out control such as visa caps. If you are a regular reader, you know that we have strong feelings in all of these areas. Though it isn't our main job, we hope our influence and the feedback you have already given us will go a long way.
Bottom line - we have openings for software engineers that we are looking to fill in the US - 1,500 of them! So if you have already applied - thank you and keep the faith while we try to find a match for you in the company. If you haven't applied yet - what are you waiting for!?
75 Comments
Matt Wharton said:
I think Zoe speaks the truth. I was up there for an interview last week (got hired too :) ) and I saw a pretty good number of interview candidates pass thru Building 19 (and this was during a holiday week). I certainly got the impression that a lot of people are being interviewed for positions in Redmond.
-Matt
zoe said:
Congrats Matt! I actually heard about your offer from Melissa (if you are the same Matt Wharton that is). Excited to have you on board in the coming weeks.
Cheers!
Matt Wharton said:
Hey Zoe,
Yeah, that's me; small world I guess. :)
I have to hand it to you and Gretchen; your blog is an excellent preparatory tool for the whole hiring/interview process. It really helped me to know, in general, what to expect. So...kudos!
-Matt
Adam said:
I followed the direction on the main MS page about applying to MS as a new college grad.
I'm wondering, how man apps do you get to the resume@microsoft.com address per day? in a year?
Adam said:
6000?!?! I thought it was high, but not that high!
Out of that 6000, how many would you guess are actually qualified enough to work there? (including kids graduating from college?)
Garrett Fitzgerald said:
Well, I do apply, but you never get back to me. :-) My testing contract with the Fox team runs out later this month, so I'll be available quite soon...
zoe said:
Adam - yep we get a ton of applications. I am not sure what the exact ratios are for qualified candidates, but not all the applications are unique. Sometimes one person will apply to about 100 positions at a time. That is why we recommend a targeted search.
Scott & Garrett - As I mentioned, keep the faith! We are working to figure out the best way to improve our systems so we aren't a black hole.
Sathyaish Chakravarthy said:
Hi Zoe,
I wait eagerly for the time when I'd be joining Microsoft, Redmond. I hope it is soon.
Russ C said:
I guess I'll have to wait until you're allowed more sponsor more foreigners!
Jason B said:
Zoe can you share your relocation experience? You and I are fellow Clevelanders and have already chatted some, but I'm try to decide if moving to Redmond would help accelerate the interviewing process or increase my chances of getting an interview for a position.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Scott & Garret - Just curious what your answer to this question would be, "Why do you want to work at Microsoft?" :-)
Gretchen & Zoe - Any chance we could spin off the topic of "How to improve recruiting at Microsoft" into a separate blog? There seem to be a lot of folks willing to share their improvements and suggestions. Thoughts?
Ian Ceicys said:
Hey Zoe,
It was a lot of fun dancing with you when I was at HQ for summit last March. I know you're not in college recruiting and I did a google search for "Microsoft College Recruiting Blogs" and it didn't come back with anything of use. I've submited my resume, e-mailed my previous recruiter Andy Goetlib, and secretly snuck into a MS recruiting sessiona at Welleseley College[all women..hehehe..I was the only guy ;) ], but nothing seems to stick.
Anyways, I'll stop whining and get back to hunting down the elusive Microsoft recruiters(hehehe).
Besides www.microsoft.com/college and your blog does HR have any other blogs or college recruiting insights? And if MS won't hire me as full time, and I wanted to go toward the contractor route to Microsoft for a partner company how would I find out about such positions?
(I've heard contractors have a much better chance after a few years of experience to become full time Microsofties)
Thanks in advance,
Ian Ceicys
MVP,C#MVP, MCP, working on MCSE,& generally a cool guy
Zeo01@hotmail.com
Ian Ceicys said:
I didn't know you were from Clevland, cleveland Ohio right?
Where?
I'm from Cleveland Heights near Coventry. :)
Brian said:
I've been hearing about the need for good developers from a lot of different people/companies, it seems like a good time to be a developer!
I had a rather weird experience with a Microsoft Recruiter. I was contacted b/c the recruiter found my resume on Monster. The position was not a very good match; it sounded awesome, don't get me wrong -- but, with 5-7 yrs experience I'm at the point when I realize some positions are better matches than others. I expressed my sincere interest, but was upfront about the qualifications being a bit different from my background.
The recruiter said she'd talk with the hiring manager and get back to me either way. She seemed to appreciate my honesty and indicated she'd work with me on other positions that may be better suited, since there were so many available. The thing is, I never heard back. I tried e-mailing (twice), tried calling. But nothing.
From time to time I submit my resume to positions through the careers site. I'm still puzzled as to what happened (if someone says they'll get back to you, they should), and frankly wondering if I'm on a blacklist or something?
Thanks for any advice!
TDavid said:
I blogged about this on my main technology blog to help spread the word. I'll echo what Brian said above: it's a good time to be a programmer :) The 2004 contract work scene is much improved as well, both in my company and other developers I've spoken with this year.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Brian - It is indeed a good time to be a developer! Especially for Microsoft! My personal thoughts are focused on just keeping my name floating around in the circles of influence in Redmond. I keep trying to improve myself technically (like learning COM/ATL and building a .NET Compiler). Sometimes the game of recruiting is like a chess match - sometimes the best move is just making the other party aware of your presence, business acumen and demonstrating your tenacity to be the best. This often involved sticking to your core beliefs about ourself even when others may not see it your way.
I totally agree with you 100% that when someone makes you a promise to get back with you - they ABSOLUTELY should. In a recruiting role, only 2 people have a direct impact upon the preceptions people have of Microsoft - Product Support persons and Recruiters. One fixes your problems and the other is supposed to help you avoid problems, answer questions, etc... If I were at Microsoft as a recruiter, I would certainly keep the lines of communication open. I agree with you - there is no excuse for that. (barring a death in the family or unexpected circumstances.)
There is no "blacklist" at Microsoft. It's illegal and if found out they would face extremely stiff penalties and possible class action lawsuits. :-) Be careful not to get a conspiracy theory going. :-)
zoe said:
Brian - probably not. I would imagine that it potentially could degenerate into a unproductive conversation fairly quickly. Gretchen and I are willing to filed questions and provide posts where we ask you about specific improvements. Constructive input is important to us.
Ian - unfortunately, college has a very different process and they don't have a blog at this time. There is a student blog that has formed that is focused on development that may be interesting to you:
<a target="_new" href="http://blogs.msdn.com/msdnstudentflash">http://blogs.msdn.com/msdnstudentflash</a>. We work with several contracting agencies in the area including Volt and Excell Data Corp. It might be good to put your resume in with those companies if you are seriously interested in a contract positions. And yes, I was born in Cleveland, OH and actually grew up in Cleveland Heights (near Coventry as well) and Shaker Heights for a period of time. :)
Brian's Advice to Brian - I probably would have said the exact same thing.
To the Brian who had a not-so-nice experience, maybe you could contact me offline and we could talk about what you are looking for. Then maybe I could hook you up with the right recruiters here?
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Zoe - I understand your point. There is a difference between constructive criticism and inflammatory rhetoric. That being said, an optimized, utopian approach would lead to a productive, root-cause analysis discussion. In lieu of this nirvana, I have ideas.
May I send them to you as an e-mail? :-) All this blogging about recruting makes me want to investigate being one. :-)
zoe said:
Sure - please feel free to follow up with me offline.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Zoe - Thank you. I will send it this afternoon. :-)Some of the ideas are adapted from my Ascent Training in PSS, but still relevant.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Zoe - Check your inbox.
Richard Reukema said:
I would love to get a job with Microsoft, and have been a Systems Analyst for over 19 years. Before I send my resume however, does Microsoft have a preferred format? I would **LOVE** to become a Technical Evangelist!
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Richard - I know a Developer Evangelist here in Deover, Colorado who might be willing to answer some of your questions regarding the "evangelist" role. Would you like me to contact him? I am sure there is some corssover between technical and developer evangelist roles.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Richard - that's Denver, Colorado. Dang spell checker! :-)
Richard Reukema said:
Brian Korzeniowski - Now your are taking about a match in heaven - Denver + a great job!
I would very much appreciate a conversation with him! Try me at rreukema@hotmail.com.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Richard - I will drop Michael a line and see if he has time to answer your questions. If you do not get a response in a few days drop me a line (briankorz@hotmail.com)
Zoe - What role do you need to play in this? Please advise. :-) (Now, about that recruiting job...)
Chris McKenzie said:
My dream is to work for Microsoft. My understanding, however, is that MS requires a degree. I'm working on that now.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Chris - Look in the archives of this blog. There is a post regarding that. :-) Microsoft prizes intelligence and contribution above all. Oh yeah - and results. :-) A degree never hurts.
Microsoft has a college recruiting division. There is also a post in here someplace about that. :-)
Brian Korzeniowski said:
To all the developers in the room - Here is a programming puzzle I use in interviews. How would you solve the problem? I use this question to see how a potential developer solves problems.
You are in a room without a light, blindfolded and do not know your relative position in the room or which direction you are facing. There is carpet in the room. A marble is dropped on the carpet someplac in the room. Your task is to pick up the marble. What is your algorithm for finding the marble? Code it on the whiteboard.
Any takers? :-)
Matt Wharton said:
Hi Brian K,
Assuming you're in a rectagular room with one and only one marble on the floor and there is no possible way to get light, here's one algorithm I imagine you could follow (at a high level):
1. Find a corner. You could do this by walking straight ahead until you reach a wall. Then strafe the wall to either the left or right until you hit the side wall. You're now in a corner.
2. Start traversing the room sort of like you'd mow a lawn. Walk with one foot in front of the other until you reach the opposite wall. Then, turn around and slide down by the width of your foot. Walk the other direction now, one foot in front of the other.
3. Keep repeating #2 until you reach the opposite side of the room (i.e. run into the wall on the other side). Before you reach the end, you're bound to step on the marble at which point you'll say 'OUCH!' and reach down and pick it up. :)
This seems somewhat slow and methodical, but would get the job done (I think). Can anyone think of something more clever?
I believe coding this would be a matter of defining an appropriate API for the primitive actions I described above (e.g. take a step, pick up marble, etc) and executing them in the order described by the high level algorithm.
Just my $0.02.
-Matt
Jason Haley said:
More interesting finds this weekend
Chris McKenzie said:
I think the problem with the above solution is that in step 2 you can't be sure you're walking in a straight line. I would modify the above algorithm as follows: take off your shoes and socks. Assuming the carpet is thick, when you find the corner and start your first later traversement of the room, slide your foot across the floor, flattening the carpet in one direction. Use the feeling of the flattened carpet as a means to walk in a straight line.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Mat & Chris - I like the fact you are thinking about the solution. However, Read the problem again. :-) Ask yourself what is missing in the problem definition? Do you need to ask a few clarifying questions? Which ones? (Hint: Your algorithm varies according to the shape of the room) I like your thought processes so far. :-)
By the way, you may or may not be asked questions like this if you interview with Microsoft. Their uses varies among teams. The point of the exercise is not to prove one method right or wrong. It is to see how you think. Coding exercises on whiteboards do exactly that. Microsoft hires thinkers. So as they say, "We pay you to think...so think." :-)
That being said, going through a lot of these types of exercises will prepare you well. I can say with 100% certainty that if you are trying to land an SDE/SDET role you WILL be asked to write code on the whiteboard.
bob said:
Questions other than room shape:
- What else is in the room? (e.g. any furniture)
- How thick/deep is the carpet?
- How is the carpet fixed to the floor?
- How big is the marble?
Assuming some answers for now, that is that the room is rectangular, no furniture or other items in the room, either the carpet is not sooo deep or the marble is large enough that the marble will not sink completely into the carpet, and the carpet is fixed very securely to the floor.
I also assume that you'd like this solved as fast as possible.
Steps:
1 - Find corner (using algo previously mentioned)
2 - Remove shoes (into hands).
3 - Check corner for marble with feet.
4 - Nude up, placing clothes (and shoes) in (already checked) corner. (Cold marble will be easier to find against bare skin and I want as much skin as possible against the floor).
5 - Lay on floor across the edge between either wall and the floor, with hands stretched out above head and reaching all the way into the corner.
6 - Roll across floor keeping fingers on wall, waiting for the cold shock of glass on skin.
7 - Repeat using the idea from previous post where the pressed down nature of the carpet can be used as a guide for aligning the body for the next roll (slight overlap may decrease risk of a miss in the join between strips).
If the interviewer doesn't like this answer you could offer to prove how well it works in practice.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Bob - I think I'll pass on the live demo. :-) Your questions are on the right track. The carpet is actually commercial grade carpet. Therefore, there would be no matted carpet to align your rolls. How do you adjust your algorithm above to compensate for this? One more hint: The room is a trapezoid. :-) Enjoy!
Matt Wharton said:
Brian - you raise a good point, particularly regarding rooms of non-rectangular shape. If you had a circular room in particular, the notion of 'finding a corner' would be flawed. In real life, it's always good to have the best possible problem specification before attempting to devise a solution.
Bob - good out of the box thinking. I wouldn't have thought about rolling around on the floor in the buff (for finding a marble anyways :) ).
From personal experience, I'd definitely expect whiteboarding questions in an MS interview. It really does help if you have some practice at it (either from daily use in your current/previous job or maybe in more of an academic setting). Being used to using the whiteboard, in my opinion, takes a fair bit of the stress out of interviews.
As for this particular question, I personally wasn't asked to code anything this abstract (I'd say this borders on being a 'mind bender'). Nonetheless, I do think it's a good question to make someone think about things and to see what their thought processes are like. Personally, I think these kinds of questions are fun, but I imagine they might be nerve racking in an interview setting.
-Matt
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Matt - You are correct. I think these types of questions can be nerve racking. However, they do have a specific place in certain situations. Will you get asked such a question? Probably not. But like the old saying says, "Chance favors the prepared mind."
With 100% certainty, I can tell you that they help you refine your algorithm and logic skills. Probably nothing more - hence, they can help you during whiteboard sessions.
If there is anyone who wants to try the code solution using C++ or C# give it a shot. Write down your algorithm then solve the problem. It's a fun exercise. :-)
Matt Wharton said:
It would be interesting to see what kind of an API and/or object model people come up with for representing this situation. I want to see the 'removeClothing()' method for Bob's solution :p
-Matt
zoe said:
Whoa! Check out the dialogue going on. Looks like Brian K. decided to be a "moon gal" and hijacked the site this weekend :) Guess I missed out. Oh well, I was busy playing with my new kittens :)
Jason - I will write a post about my relocation experience since the space here is relatively small. I think it is debateble whether or not you will have a higher likelihood of interviewing if you move out here on your own dime. Plus, MS does provide a full relo package and we rarely hesitate to relocate someone.
BrianK/Richard - Glad you were able to make a connection here. I don't really need to be involved at this point. Good luck.
Matt Wharton said:
See what happens when you play with the kittens Zoe? You get your blog hijacked and people start talking about PG-13 solutions to problems! :p
-M
zoe said:
Brian K - Yes, that is what it typically equates to in terms of postion.
Matt - :)
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Bob - Now you're talking. So, if an algorithm is supposed to be a determinable set of steps that is repeatable and gives the same set of results across iterations, how do you repeat your algorithm if you tear up the carpet?
I love your solution though. The most inventive yet. Good thoughts.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Bob - Can you think of a way to execute your algorithm WITHOUT tearing up the carpet? :-)
zoe said:
Yeah - that is absolutely something that we have thought of. As you can imagine, there are a ton of things that have to happen (legally, logistically etc) in order to actually implement this though :)
Brian Korzeniowski said:
KC - I think puzzles are good, and I personally might use one or two myself, but to deny a developer a job interview because they cannot "crack a puzzle" seems a little nutty on the part if ITA don't you think? :-) Puzzles are a way to see HOW you think, not IF you can think.
Even Microsoft recognizes the weak correlation between puzzles and their ability to predict a candidate's success.
Gretchen or Zoe, do you want to field that one? I remember someone asking about that once but I cannot remember when the post occurred. :-)
zoe said:
Well - as I just mentioned, it is something we have considered. Not puzzles per se, but some other form of evaluation.
We've posted lots about the interview process and questions we think are good/valuable for assessment. Just check out our categories :)
KC said:
Well Brian, interviewing for SDET/STE positions all come down to wether you can write code to solve real world problems or not. I think ITAs' intent is to pose problems that mirror what they expect their developers to work on. If within a period of several weeks, a candidate cannot solve a programming puzzle that is less complex than what he is supposed to be involved in everyday, then there is very little reason to assume he will be a good fit.
Since I am a recent gradute I understand I cannot go through Microsoft Careers. I have tried the College Careers section but have not gotten a reply. It can be rather frustrating hoping your resume gets scanned out of thousands. So I guess it's pretty selfish on my part but I can't help thinking the ITA route might be the way to go at Microsoft especially for recent graduates.
Matt Wharton said:
KC,
For what it's worth, submitting directly to the careers site was a seeming black hole for me as well (although, I was applying as an experienced candidate vs. college).
Interestingly enough, a third-party recruiter found a text version of my resume on monster.com and asked if I'd like them to submit my resume to MS; it was free to me, so I approved. A few days later, I was contacted by an internal MS recruiter and the rest is history. Certainly seems like getting a referral in this manner would increase one's visibility.
As an interesting side note, I had a colleague (very similar qualifications, although slightly less overall experience) submit her resume directly to the MS careers site and she was contacted within a couple of days. Offhand, our resumes looked comparable, but I'm assuming she probably had some keyword that made her show up higher in a database search. Who knows?
I think the MS recruiters do genuinely try to find the best possible people to fill their reqs. I acknowledge that it must be hard though to notice every good potential candidate from the deluge of resumes they get.
I'd imagine that attending some sort of event (job fair, etc) might help because then you might have the chance to interface with a recruiter directly and they'll have a person to associate with an otherwise faceless resume. Something like this would likely generate higher visibility than being a single water molecule in a tidal wave (electronic submission....ok, maybe I'm inflating the numbers a bit :p ).
Anyways, as usual, just my $0.02.
-Matt
Brian Korzeniowski said:
So KC, just curious... Did your interview result in a full-time position with Microsoft? :-)
Brian Korzeniowski said:
KC - It actually all comes down to whether you can THINK IN CODE. Thinking in code emcompasses the core traits of a whiteboard question: 1. Can you think about a problem, critically analyze it, and come up with an algorithm, 2. Can you think of the potential pitfalls of your algorithm before you write any code? 3. Can you actually code something in code? 4. Can you explain, justify and defend your solution against a peer-review? 5. Can you modify your code on-the-fly if needed? You are more valuable to Microsoft as an SDE/SDET if you can both think in code and think about others code and fix it too. :-) Next time you interview with Microsoft, practice thinking in code first.
I agree with you KC - MS recruiters DO genuinely try to find the best possible people to fill their reqs.
The summary? WHEW!...*lol* Contact me offline if you want to chat about how to make yourself stand out. I have some experience with that. (briankorz@hotmail.com)
Matt Wharton said:
Hi Brian,
Based on your reply, it looks KC's and my posts ran together for you. Sorry about the confusion! :)
In answer to your question, yes my interview did lead to a full time position for an SDET role.
-Matt
Michal Chaniewski said:
Yeah, I am applying... Every month :)
The one time I was contacted, the visa caps were hit just after I sent my reply with answers to questions. What a bad luck :( Maybe next year?
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Matt - No problem. :-) Congratulations on your position! What team are you on? What kinds of things will you be working on? (if you can say) :-)
JJ said:
Really!!! Since when.
Why then in my career is that I always hear MS whine about not finding quality engineers in the USA?
Especially when the best engineers I have worked with, proven not only for their innovative solutions to problems and the incredible quality of their work (a foreign concept to MS), have never received so much as a phone call from MS after submitting a resume let alone an interview. Microsoft apparently values arrogance above all. If you are willing to work grueling hours without compensation, willing to forsake your family commitments, are dedicated to shipping a product on the arbitrary date Marketing has set without regard for the quality or security of the code then MS is the place for you.
There are great USA engineers out. I think rather MS wants code slaves that pump out code and lots of it. Too hell with design, quality or security.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
JJ,
I am sorry your personal experiences with Microsoft have been disappointing to date.
Honest communication is encouraged on this blog, but it is not a good idea to levy charges like you have in a public forum without proof. You need to be careful there. Just a friendly warning. If I were an employer and you just blogged what you did, I would have my legal department all over your case. You need to get your facts straight before you open your mouth.
What you said was really stupid JJ. We are all profoundly dumber for having read your post. If you want someone to rant to, take it offline. I'll listen to you. :-)
zoe said:
Whoa der kiddies!
The fact of the matter is that not everyone has a positive experience with Microsoft and that is the reason why Gretchen and I exist. We think everyone's opinion is valid and valued regardless of where they are coming from and we are trying to solve some of the problems through comments and suggestions we receive in this forum.
JJ - you’re right in that many great engineers apply and don't hear back. We've blogged a lot about what we are doing to try to turn that around. It's a slow process, but I think we are seeing some improvements. Especially given Matt Wharton's recent experience – not to mention a few others that haven’t publicly talked about it.
Brian – you’re entitled to your opinion as well, but I don’t know if going around calling people stupid is a good idea either :0)
Matt Wharton said:
Hey Brian,
In answer to your earlier question, I'll be working in the Business Solutions group (they acquired Great Plains and some other apps for small to mid-sized business management over the past few years). Without getting TOO specific (I actually don't know enough to get super specific), I'll be working on automated test code/infrastructure for a payroll subsystem.
The whole dedicated SDET role concept is interesting to me. I've been a big fan of automated tests for several years; the quality benefits seem self evident. In my current (soon to be previous) job, all of us developers write automated test cases for any new code we develop. You could argue though that this is somewhat like the fox guarding the chicken coop; it seems more effective to have a set of independent developers, who maybe aren't as emotionally attached to a particular piece of code, who's sole purpose is to break a SW module. In any event, I'm sure I'll find it interesting. ;)
-Matt
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Matt - Where is the job located? :-) I know their dividion HQ is in Fargo, but I think they have one in Denver as well.
Bob said:
Brian - Ok, so you're attached to your carpet, but you like the algorithm. I'm afraid keeping the general idea of the algorithm requires me taking my clothes off again. It also puts a limit on the size and configuration of the trapezoid without introducing a fair degree of complexity. Basically:
- I remove all my clothes and tie them all together to produce as long a strip of clothing as possible.
- Attach each end of the strip to one of my shoes (one end per shoe). Place each shoe in two of the corners (without making a diagonal) (minimizing the distance between the corners maximizes the size of the room this algorithm can handle, hopefully it was really cold and I have several layers of clothing).
- Alternatively move each show along the wall towards the corner opposite corner on that shoes side of the wall. Take care to drag ACROSS the surface of the floor forcing the marble forward.
- When both shoes are at the other end of their starting wall you have trapped the marlbe in the corner and you scan up the wall between the shoes using any of the methods described above.
You can actually stop when both the shoes are at most a body length from the wall and use the full body rolling method, but given you're blindfolded you will not be able to know how close the wall is until you reach it. Another possible optimization is to use the full body roll along the way, if you don't pull the fabric strip too hard the marble should stay close to its edge, so assuming the marble is dropped in a random location you have 50% chance of having the marble on the edge of the fabric when only half way down the room (you could scout the length of the room in the direction you will be travelling before you start the sweeping process without wasting much time).
Unfortunately this limits the generality somewhat, you can't handle rooms of sizes greater than what you clothing can span (in fact you need reasonable excess over a room span in order to be able to move the shoes a reasonable distance each time). It also requires that you can fit into the corners of a room, as mentioned previously, some trapezoid shapes would make this impossible. You could work around the first problem by making the sweeping much more complicated and doing partial sweeps, the main complexity is keeping track, which is easy when you have each wall as a dual reference point but harder otherwise. Possibly using the shoes to indicate orientation from a wall may help keep bearings when moving away from the side walls (this concept is much easier to draw than explain). Anyway I think I've made this rediculous enough for now. Time to move on :-)
LukCAD said:
Seems, you found it. It is I.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Bob - Agreed. :-)
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Bob - Put a shirt on. You're scaring the other bloggers. :-) *lol*
Bob said:
Brian - I dont think its the shirt they're really worried about :-)
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Bob - *lol*
zoe said:
We get about 6,000 applications a day from people give or take. I think you might be able to figure out the volume from there :)
Scott Galloway said:
Hmmphh...applied to a bunch heard nothing...bah!
zoe said:
We don't have a preferred format per se, but I would definitely recommend that you check out our post category around resume tips.
Brian said:
Hi Zoe,
Thank you very much! And to the other Brian, thank you for the input, it is appreciated and calms the nerves a bit!! I guess the biggest unknown that I had walking away from the experience was, "What happened?" It was the not knowning (the not getting back to me) that concerned me.
I appreciate the info, and will drop you a e-mail in a few minutes! :)
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Richard - As Zoe says, "Time to tend to some administrivia.." :-) Watch the Channel 9 video...
Have you applied via the careers website? If not, go to <a target="_new" href="http://www.microsoft.com/careers">http://www.microsoft.com/careers</a> and submit your resume.
If you are ever in the Denver area Richard, drop me a note. I would love to get together and show you around!
Brian Korzeniowski said:
Zoe - If Microsoft hires someone on their "contingency staff", would this mean the same as irin a "contractor?"
How's that song go? Things that make you go hmmmm :-)
Sorry abou hijacking the blog. :-) You have to get up pretty early to out blog me!
bob said:
A trapezoid eh? Hmmmm...I'd probably stop blushing and put my clothes back on at this point (interviewer breathes sigh of relief). If the solution is expected to be generic to all trapezoid rooms then some trapezoids will not allow a human body into the corners (rooms of very large area with very acute angles for example). So you didn't mention how securely tethered the carpet is. Knowing you're probably going to come back and say, "You have neither the strength nor the tools to pull up the carpet", I'll throw this idea out there anyway:
1 - Guess which edge of the trapezoid is the longest, it doesn't really matter if you get this wrong, a correct guess just saves some time later, you could find an edge then traverse the edge of the trapezoid by touch to do this. This logic motivating this step assumes traversing is much cheaper than pulling up carpet, if not then this step can be skipped.
2 - Pull up all edges of the carpet except the one chosen in step 1 (or a random edge if step 1 is skipped).
3 - Roll up the carpet towards the still fixed edge, do this in a manner which pushes the marbe forward and avoids rolling it up in the carpet (should be easy with the type of carpet you've described).
4 - At the end of this the marble will be wedged between the fixed edge and the roll of carpet, a hand (or foot) traveral along this edge should find the marble. You could also force the marble into a corner at this point but the carpet may be too heavy to lift enough to perform this operation.
Of course this solution sucks in a number of ways, not least of which is that it destroys a perfectly good carpet. It may also get difficult to manipulate the roll of carpet in order to keep the marble moving forward as the roll increases in size. It also assumes that pulling up carpet is cheaper than an exhaustive traversal of the room. The main point in favour of this method is that it avoids the exhaustive traversal by using the carpet to perform a sweep type algorithm common in problems in the geometrical domain.
I probably wouldn't start an implementation until I'd arrive at an algorithm the interviewer was happy with. If I had to revert to exhaustive search of the room I probably wouldn't use C++ or C#...Logo seems more appropriate for expressing that type of solution :-)
So I've threatened the interviewer with nudity, destroyed the carpet and suggested an almost extinct programming language for implementation, how am I doing so far? :-)
kc said:
Since you get so many applications per day, why not have a way to filter out some of the noise? Say a programming puzzle that changes each week like that used by ITA Software. Then have candidates submit their resume only if they can crack the puzzle.
Brian Korzeniowski said:
JJ - Zoe is correct. I apologize. I would want to know on what facts you base your opinion on. :-)
Sorry Zoe...
Matt Wharton said:
Brian,
No, it's a Redmond position. :p I got the impression that a good portion of the development/test work is being shifted from Fargo (as well as from other places around the world where businesses have been acquired) to Redmond. The closest I've been to Fargo is seeing the movie by the same name; that'll do for me :p
"Is that your friend there in the wood chipper?"
I actually live near Denver now (Loveland). ;)
-Matt
Bob said:
Ridiculous spelling.